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The old days of buying an investment property, sitting back passively,  raking in rent, and waiting for huge capitol growth so that you can cash in are long gone. Now you need to be an active participant in your property’s growth. Ian Ugarte reveals the strategies you can use to manufacture growth in your property.



Adrian Franklin (00:09):

Hello, and welcome to Ticker Home, where each week we will dive into the latest trends on the property market and answer the questions you need to know. It’s a pleasure, as always, to welcome my cohost Ian Ugarte, co-founder of Small Is The New Big. Hello, mate. How are you today? 


Ian Ugarte (00:24):

Hi, how are you? I’m well.


Adrian Franklin (00:25):

Very well. What are you looking forward to talking about today?


Ian Ugarte (00:30):

Yeah, today I want to show people how they can create and not wait for growth. And effectively, what I want to talk about is people being active in their growth strategy rather than just a passive sit back and wait and hope for capital growth.


Adrian Franklin (00:44):

Nicely done. I’ve already had a look at some of the questions and I’m very excited about this conversation. Firstly, Ticker Home is presented by our partners at Small Is The New Big, who are on a mission to create one million affordable homes in the next 10 years and help Aussies struggling with housing stress. Learn more at SmallIsTheNewBig.com.au. Let’s get him back in, my man, Ian. For what is trending, we’ve got three talking points. What’s first for you this week?


Ian Ugarte (01:11):

Yeah, I got an article here from Greta Andrews-Taylor in the West Australian, and this article is about Western Australians using the ability to be able to subdivide their blocks close to the city more than they ever have before. It’s what they call infield development across the country, and Western Australians are taking it up in droves. Effectively over there, they’ve got a really great planning system. And they’re creating what they call the battle ax blocks. So rather than building two houses side by side on a block, they’re actually creating the concrete driveway, which is the ax handle, and then the backyard becomes the ax head, which is what they call it a battle ax.


But you end up with a smaller block. But these downsizes are looking at design. Design’s come a long way in the last few years, especially with the open plan living area so you can actually have a smaller house and be quite comfortable. What’s important here is block shape, the size and the zoning. And these are important aspects of choosing a property to buy, and it’s something that we’re going to be talking about today.


Adrian Franklin (02:10):

Nicely done. Second point, you’ve mentioned the regional areas of Australia over recent weeks, but there’s a bit of a moment here for our regional renaissance. What have you got here?


Ian Ugarte (02:21):

Yeah. Tom Dusevic in The Australian has brought up Dubbo and it’s a great story in New South Wales where unemployment actually fell during COVID to 1.4%, when the national average at its worst was 7.6%. There’s actually 90% more jobs being advertised this month than last month in the Dubbo region. Out of the 37 regions that the national skills commission looks at, it’s the best performing region. The mayor’s saying, “Come on in, we’ve got plenty of space.”


They’ve already got 80% of occupancy in hotels, local attractions, like the Dubbo Zoo are doubling in numbers and some businesses, Adrian, instead of opening up five days are now open up seven days. So this is a place that, 18 months ago, was devastated by drought. They almost ran out of water, which would have been a very harsh thing for the whole city.


It’s a thriving city. Now we’ve got the deputy PM announcing some regional awareness programs. There’s other associations and Farmers Federation announcing regional programs. In the next 10 years, the federal governments are spending $110 billion in regional centers. As always, the opposition is saying that they shouldn’t be doing that, but that’s their job. Regional is a really great area to be in with property right now.


Adrian Franklin (03:39):

And just finally, to wrap up what’s trending, let’s talk about the red hot property market as a whole and prices. Do you think it’s out of control at the moment, would you say? Or what are you thinking?


Ian Ugarte (03:52):

I think it’s something that happens once in a generation, sometimes twice in a generation. And this is Martin Farrer in The Guardian. And prices are going up high than ever. We’ve got low interest rates, we’ve got government stimulus, and lifestyle changes that people are looking forward to doing because of COVID. So core logic has said that we’re now showing a 2.3% increase nationally for all the median house prices, which means we’re only 0.1% of our all time high in October 2017.


Domain has revealed that Sydney has its highest ever median at $1,211,488 dollars, a 4.8% increase in December quarter in Sydney. The central coast had a 12.7% increase, which we talked about. The Northern beaches of Sydney, a 10.7% increase over the last 12 months. Units and apartments are suffering, which means that Melbourne particularly, with the COVID lock downs, people are generally in a negative position if they bought just before COVID.


But it is recovering and there are some outliers like the Mornington peninsula. And after the first recession in 30 years, recovery has been pretty quick. They’re all looking to see what happens with Europe in the US, and what happens when the job seeker stops. If the job seeker does stop and create an impact, we’ll see property prices impacted. But if it doesn’t, we’ll see property prices go in an upward direction, like the likes of 1985 to ’88, where property prices almost doubled for over a three year period.


Adrian Franklin (05:22):

Yeah. It’s going to be a talking point all throughout this year, of course. Let’s get into our main conversation right now. One of the things you mentioned last week was manufacturing growth in properties. You touched on it earlier. So this got me thinking, so I wanted to explore this a little bit more with you this week. What do you mean when you talk about manufacturing growth, and how does this differ from the more commonly known form of growth, which is capital growth, of course?


Ian Ugarte (05:45):

Yeah. Last week I got a lot of questions and feedback about wanting to know more about manufactured growth. Fundamentally, there’s two ways that you can get growth: you can sit back and be passive and hope for capital growth and be a lazy investor or lazy home owner, and you can use what they call the BHP strategy, which is buy, hope, and pray that it’s going to go in an upward direction.


But I much prefer a proactive approach to growth. And this is the strategy that we call manual or manufactured growth. And this is where you look at various aspects of property and where you can add value to the property. And the proactive way is to spend a little and end up with a higher value property. And it’s much, much better than buying, hoping, and praying because you’re in control, Adrian. And no one is in control of capital growth. So if you’ve got control, then you’re in a much better position.


Adrian Franklin (06:36):

So what you’re talking about here is property owners being really proactive about increasing the value of their assets. So what are some of the ways that property owners can actually do this?


Ian Ugarte (06:45):

Well, you can look at it and say, well, let’s look at the one that most people would think about and that’s renovation. So you could do a cosmetic renovation where you simply just change some door handles, do some painting, fix up the gardens, and then increase its value. Or you could do a structure innovation where you go out, you knock out walls, and you do a whole bunch of things to the property. You can’t live in it. And by doing that, you increase the value of the property.


A lot of people are starting to do granny flats around the country. Now, in some areas of the country, you can rank the granny flat to a second party, which means it increases value because you’ve got more rent. The granny flats around the country are either called an ancillary dwelling or an auxiliary dwelling or a secondary dwelling. You could possibly build a duplex. So that is where you build two houses side by side where they used to only be one. And because you’ve got two properties, it increases in value.


Subdivision, like we talked about that in the first article there, where you take a block of land and essentially create smaller parcels out of it. And a lot of people would say, “Oh, look, I just want to be passive, and that it’s way too complex to do this.” But you know what? If you just follow a system and process and follow in the people that have already paved the way ahead of you, it’s actually not that complex, and it’s something that you really shouldn’t be thinking about.


Adrian Franklin (08:03):

So with all of those different options, I’m assuming that not every property is suitable for all of those strategies you’ve touched on. So should buyers perhaps have some of these strategies in mind when they are looking to purchase?


Ian Ugarte (08:16):

Yeah, absolutely. If you’re looking at purchasing, look for a big block, because there’s quite a good potential that you’d be able to chop the block in half. If it’s a larger house that you’re looking at, can you actually create a co-living property where you can get more rent and create more housing for more people? Maybe you’re looking at properties and you drive down the road and you see a duplex on one side or the other. If there’s a duplex in that street already, it’s quite likely you can do the same thing.


And you really should have a shopping list of strategies when you’re going out to look for a property. And you want to be able to do one, if not two, if not all of the strategies. And were always looking for the unicorn, and the unicorn is where a whole bunch of strategies are on a list and I can tick off and do all of those strategies in one property. But as long as you can do one preferred strategy, and your thought process is around being an active investor, then at the end of the day, you should end up better off.


Adrian Franklin (09:10):

And in your 30 years of probably experience, what’s one of the most successful ways that you’re found to reliably and consistently manufacture or create growth in a property? What’s the one thing that sticks out to you?


Ian Ugarte (09:23):

Yeah, Adrian. Like I just said, if you can stack strategies or put all the strategies in one, and here’s an example of a strategy that was completely stacked. This is a property that was subdivided. They went and … This was in a warm spot, not in a hot spot, so they had capital growth around it. And on each one of those blocks, they built a duplex.


So effectively, what they did was I took one dwelling, turned it into four dwellings, put co-living property on top of that, and had a really great outcome. The stocking strategies is the way that you can do this. And the more strategies you stack, the better off you are in your active investing.


Adrian Franklin (10:05):

And just to finish, having said all of this. With all this talk of property prices setting to rise to record highs this year, do you think it’s safer, potentially, to just purchase and then sit on the property and then just wait for the growth?


Ian Ugarte (10:20):

Yeah, look, it would be really easy to think that, Adrian. “I’m just going to sit back and everyone else is growing.” But FOMO is kicking in, so people are buying stuff for the sake of buying it, and they really shouldn’t do the buy high price strategy. It’s not a good way to invest. They may end up worse off than when they started.


And I talk about double dipping. You shouldn’t double dip at a party, but certainly in property, you can. Buying a property is going to be the most significant capital investment that someone will ever make. And the difference at the end of your working life is huge. And it’s always interesting to compare the two, if you did the passive versus the active. Get the capital growth that you really want out of your property, but also get the manual growth.


The manual growth strategies are huge. If you go to a party and you double dip into the hummus, people look at you and say, “That was the wrong thing to do.” But if you double dip it in property, you’re going to have friends and family around you saying, “You have done really well for yourself, and we’re so happy for you.” What would you rather? Get 10% capital growth on one property, or turn a property into four and getting capital growth on top of those of 10%, and on top of that, have the manual growth strategy? Why not double dip? You can get your capital growth and also get your manufactured growth by using really great manual growth strategies.


Adrian Franklin (11:39):

Loving these analogies. You brought it this episode, there’s no doubt about that. So just to wrap, I’m hearing a lot of, have a strategy, be proactive, have something in place, have a plan moving forward, don’t just sit back and around and hope for the best, in a way. Would that be the best way to summarize this chat?


Ian Ugarte (11:58):

Yeah. I think the five ways you can create growth is by not waiting for capital growth. Create it. Make sure you investigate the ability to subdivide or explore partial internal conversions. Make sure you can build additional external buildings, and always look to increase density wherever you can. And as always, there’s a free download for this episode at SmallIsTheNewBig.com.au/tickerhome. Adrian?


Adrian Franklin (12:24):

Of course there is. So we can double dip in property, but when it comes to the hummus or hummus, whichever way you go, no, double-dipping. I appreciate that. I love some hummus too, with carrots. One of my favorites. What are you like with hummus, Ian? To finish, what’s your favorite go-to?


Ian Ugarte (12:38):

I’m not a hummus man. I’m actually a pumpkin and cashew nut dip, man. I’m sorry. Or a beet root man. That’s me.


Adrian Franklin (12:47):

I can see that. I can see that, actually. Make great conversation, learn plenty. As always. Talk soon, okay?

Ian Ugarte (12:53):

Thanks, Adrian. See you next week.


Adrian Franklin (12:55):

Ticker Home presented by our partners at Small Is The New Big, who are on a mission to create one million affordable homes in the next 10 years and help Aussies struggling with housing stress. Learn more at SmallIs TheNewBig.com.au. Catch you soon.


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This week, I reveal the traps that first home buyers should avoid when they dive into the property market for the fist time. My biggest takeaway? Property will most likely be your most significant wealth creating strategy. So think of every transaction strategically, and don’t get emotional!


Adrian (00:07):

Hi there. Welcome to Ticker HOME where each week we’ll dive into the latest trends on the property market and answer the questions you need to know. It’s a pleasure as always to welcome my cohost, Ian Ugarte, Co-founder of Small Is The New Big. Mate, good to see you. What are you looking forward to talking about today?


Ian Ugarte (00:25):

Looking forward to talking about first-time purchases and how maybe I’ll be able to do a bit of a quantum shift on how people think about purchasing property.


Adrian (00:33):

I like it. That’s a great topic. Let’s get into it. Ticker HOME presented by our partners, that’s Small Is The New Big, who are on a mission to create 1 million affordable homes in the next 10 years and help Aussies struggling with housing stress. Learn more at Smallisthenewbig.com.au. All right, let’s get into this, Ian. And I am fascinated by all of these topics that you bring every week, but what is trending this week on Ticker HOME? What have you got for us?


Ian Ugarte (00:58):

Yeah, I’ve got an article from Kate Burke on Domain. It’s now cheaper to buy in 11 suburbs of Sydney, that’s cheaper to buy than to rent. You know, there was only one suburb in 2019 where that was the case. So, we’ve had a good increase in affordability as far as that’s concerned. Now this is based on principal and interest payments, and that doesn’t include things like council rates and a few things on that. But hitting the top of the box is Box Hill where mortgage repayments are $424 and to rent is $575. So, that’s $151 difference. Coming in second was Kanwal on the Central Coast with only $29 of difference between the two. Interesting, eight of the 11 suburbs are on the Central Coast. There might be some good buying in there. The unit market, Warwick Farm was at $29 difference between owning versus renting, and that could be for a number of different reasons, but most of the units were scattered all around the Western and Southwestern Sydney.


Now wait for this one, Adrian. If you were to go outside of Sydney, Mollymook Beach, your rental repayments would be $615 with a median rent at 1,260. That’s $645 difference mostly based on the fact that it’s a seaside location with short stay rentals and a lot of people that are now looking for rentals because they want to get out of the Sydney because of COVID.


Adrian (02:14):

Wow. That is a huge gap indeed. What was it called again? Molly?


Ian Ugarte (02:19):

Mollymook Beach.


Adrian (02:20):

Mollymook Beach.


Ian Ugarte (02:20):

Down on the south coast.


Adrian (02:21):

I’m going to type that in here and I’m going to look it up after the show. Hey, our next topic to talk about Australia’s housing market is boosted by policies designed to ensure prices keep rising. Tell us more about this.


Ian Ugarte (02:33):

Yeah. Greg Jericho in the Guardian. You know, he’s basically saying the government’s only really there look to look after property investors and homeowners. This year in 2020, so sorry, in 2020, there was $243 billion of lending. That’s the third largest years, which was only beaten by 2017 and 2015, but we had a recession in the middle of 2020. So that’s a pretty good thing. He was a bit tongue-in-cheek because he was one of the people predicting a huge drop in the prices. And he says, “Well, how silly of me? You know, when I look back, we’ve got an LNP government that was really not going to allow that to drop.” Property prices actually dropped by 11% May last year, but now has had a huge increase. The owner-occupier market increased lending by 37%. And in Western Australia, there’s been an 83% increase in financing for purchasing property in an area, 87% increase since the same time last year for first home buyers, which is an incredible increase.


Phillip Lowe is not too concerned about prices rising because they’re only just above what they were four years ago. Although Sydney’s huge rides four years ago made them actually tweak the median house price across the whole country. But yeah, it’s interesting to see that the government is supporting with interest rates and grants, to be able to make sure that property market doesn’t dive.


Adrian (03:51):

And just finally apartments there, it’s an interesting conversation in Melbourne right now when it comes to buying apartments. What do you see?


Ian Ugarte (03:59):

Yeah, we’ve seen similar things in Sydney with the sinking buildings and concrete foundations falling apart. This one’s now in Melbourne, Lauren Bird who purchased a property, did everything right. She got a legal team in to make sure her contractor was right. She got a building and pest inspection done. The mistake she made was that she didn’t get the building and pest inspector to look outside her box into the common areas. And her legal team really should have actually asked for a strata report, which would have picked up some issues during the body corporate meetings about all the money being spent. So, she’s effectively now having to pay money towards special levies to fix things around the property that had nothing to do with her. They’re builder’s issue. So now she’s paying legal fees with the rest of the people and the body corporate. And this is one of the reasons I suggest you never buy a unit or anything that’s got a strata over the top of it.


Adrian (04:46):

Interesting stuff. Okay. That is what is trending. Let’s get into our conversation for today. So, we’re going to talk about people investing in their first property. That’s today. So whether to live in or as an investment. In your 30 years of experience, helping people get into and stay in the property market, I’m sure you’ve seen some winners, but also some losers in the decision-making process. Broadly speaking, what’s your one piece of advice for people looking to get into the property market?


Ian Ugarte (05:13):

Yeah. The first investment into property should be strong enough to lead you into a second investment. And so you don’t want to fall into that trap of being emotionally attached to the dream home as your first purchase, but rather a stepping stone to get to your dream home eventually. After 30 years of investing in property, I only just finished building my dream home. And that dream home is actually a business decision. It can be used as a home, can be used as co-living, can be used as a wedding venue. So, you’ve always going to think about what’s the purpose and the outcome. What we want to do is take the emotional filter off, and we want to put an investment filter on, even though it’s on your own home. And we want to make sure you leverage that to get to a better home, and then another better home, and then another better home.


I mean the average hold on a first home or any home in Australia is about 11.8 years. When I first started investing, it was only seven years before you flipped onto the next property. So, the first purchase is the base ingredient of your portfolio cake, Adrian. You want to make sure that the butter and the flour, the base ingredient, is what’s going to make the make or break the bake. And the icing is actually the dream home at the end. So broadly speaking, my advices to look at this as a first investment of many, and that this is not your first home, this is your first investment property and will fundamentally mean that it changes the thinking of the first time buyer.


Adrian (06:32):

Yeah. And I guess that’s all about mindset and thinking what you’re talking about and then also having a plan in some ways. Maybe some people probably don’t have that plan, but that’s what you’re talking about, to be ready and to be thinking future planning forward. So, if we take the view that the first property should also be the first investment, what does this mean for buyers in terms of any government grants that might be available?


Ian Ugarte (06:55):

Yeah. Look, grants at the moment are huge. There’s a lot of money out there at the moment, but the first thing to say about grants, Adrian, is that not all grants are created equal. And just because you can get a grant doesn’t mean that you should be using it. You know, I’ve seen people use a $25,000 grant and spend $50,000 too much on a property. You need to be strategic as we’ve been talking about. And it means that the first property may not be the one that you live in. So think long and hard about grants before you use them because a cash grab may not be the best thing outcome, best outcome for you.


What I can say is that most States in Australia will allow you to buy an investment property first. And if you don’t live in it, still have the ability to be able to use first time owner grants and concessions for stamp duty moving forward. So, it doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to buy your first home first, you can buy an investment property and then do what we call rent vesting as always.


Adrian (07:50):

Right. Really interesting. I think for people that’d be fascinating to learn about because, yeah, a lot of people talk about grants, but you’ve just outlined what’s good and sometimes what to look out for. So, just on the point of looking at what property to buy, what sort of properties make a good first investment, would you say?


Ian Ugarte (08:07):

Yeah, let me start with what not to buy. Never buy in a greenfield estate, near farm land. We talked about the last week. And again, if you can get away from strata and body corporates, that’s also a good thing to stay away from. But effectively there are two types of growth. The capital growth and there’s manufactured growth. Capital growth, we have no control of. Manufactured growth is buying a property that has the ability for you to be able to do something to it to increase its value.


So, if we look on the screen right now, if you’re going to build or buy a large home as a partner, a young couple would move into this, they would be able to buy this and live in a smaller area and legally rent out two sections, have one child, move into a larger area, have another child, they can then move into the two bedroom area. And from there, they may be crazy like me, they’re still getting two rentals. If they have a third child, they can then take up another part of the house, which means that they’re now using two thirds of the property and crazy like me, four daughters and off and use the same all of the property. And then when one of the daughters or children starts to move out, you then start to remove that backwards.


So effectively there’s again, some rental income coming on, paying down debt. Then, you’re back to two children in the house, one child in the house, and then you’re a retiree couples sitting in there with a driveway and a caravan in the driveway, back into the studio, having two-thirds of the rental property. People young, especially millennials, need to right now think about the affordability and how they can pay their home off quicker by using that type of strategy.


Adrian (09:39):

And you, I mean, I was listening to everything there, but one point you write, do you have four daughters, Ian, did you say?


Ian Ugarte (09:45):

I do. God blessed me with four daughters and it’s absolutely awesome. There’s plenty of learning in that.


Adrian (09:50):

For sure. My goodness, man. You are just the man for the job though, there’s no doubt about that. Anyway, let’s stay on track. So you say no units. You mentioned that a couple of times. Why is this given that a lot of people new to property buying think this is the logical and obvious first step to buy a unit?


Ian Ugarte (10:08):

Firstly, Australians aren’t actually ready to live vertically. They actually want to live horizontally with grass on their toes when they step outside. So, that’s the first thing. We’re still about 15 years away from that type of thinking in Australia. But houses, more importantly, houses give you control and units don’t. So, if you talk about an off-the-plan purchase. The danger with an off-the-plan purchase is that you’re signing up on a contract for a property that hasn’t been built yet and the builder or developer usually relies on those signatures to be able to get funding to build the property, and that’s a scary thing to start with. The price could end up lower than what you paid for it. So, you buy off-the-plan at $400,000. When it settles, it’s worth $300,000. You’ve got to come up with $100,000.

So buying any unit, new or existing, is not a good investment for that reason also that you’ve got no control. If you want to change your floor plan, you need to get permission from the rest of the people in there. If you want to do anything, it’s controlled by a committee. There are rules and there are rules and there are rules and everyone is enforcing those rules. And that’s just not a good place to live.


Strata frees aren’t as cheap as what people think and the only way to manufacture growth is to renovate the property and in my opinion, renovation’s not a great strategy. More importantly, the special levies are the killer. When something goes wrong on the entire building, you’re going to have to pull money out of your pocket, along with everyone else, to come up and fix that problem and here’s the worst of it all. When someone sells a unit in your complex and sells it cheap because they get themselves in financial stress, your unit is now worth exactly the same as that unit, regardless of what condition your unit is in. It’s just not a good thing to buy anything with the body corporate.


Adrian (11:48):

Wow, I didn’t realize that. That’s one to watch out for, for sure. Before we finish with the five traps to avoid buying your first property, just briefly to finish, so if you’re planning on buying a house and not a unit, what are some of the key things you look for in the property to ensure it’s also operating as a sound first investment?


Ian Ugarte (12:05):

Yeah, your first home you should buy should always be an income earner, right? It’ll set you up for life. I’ve got Joel and Bianca, an amazing couple. They’re a talented couple that work in my business and they’re great listeners because everything that I’ve been saying, they’ve been implementing themselves. This year, they’re about to start a build on a property that they’re buying, they bought as their own home. So we talked about manufactured growth. They’ve bought a property with an old house on it. It’s the right zoning. They’ve got approval to subdivide the block. They’re putting a duplex on one side of it. On the other side, they’re putting a three-story, co-living property where they’ll have the top floor and the rooftop garden. That’s a hundred square meters to be able to look at the beach. They’ll be able to rent out underneath there.


Let’s consider the increased value of their property is going up because of what they’ve spent and the end value is much higher. The end value. But more importantly, they’ll be getting paid $1,000 per week to live in their own home. So, effectively instead of paying for rent, they’re actually getting money in pocket. So, they’re getting over and above what it costs them to live into their pocket, to be able to do other things and go off and do other investments. So, it’s an absolutely amazing way to be able to kickstart your first home.


Adrian (13:25):

Sounds pretty good to me. Let’s wrap. We’ll give you 45 seconds. The five traps to avoid when buying your first property. Go for it.


Ian Ugarte (13:32):

Yeah, absolutely. Our first property is not your first home. It should be your first investment. No need to live in your first property if it means that you’re going to end up better off in the long run. Don’t claim every grant. It’s not worth it if it’s not worth it, but if it is use it. Avoid buying a restricted zone area. So, make sure you can do more to the property and how adaptable leads your property to be able to fix the property so that it can be used by different demographics in there. As always, all of this information and some downloads are available at smallisthenewbig.com.au/tickerhome. Adrian.


Adrian (14:06):

Nicely done mate. Great chat. I’m learning. I mean, I’m learning too much from you. I got to go back and watch this episode a number of times, get my notepad out, and just list some of these points. It’s awesome again to talk. Enjoy your day. Okay. We’ll talk soon.


Ian Ugarte (14:18):

Same Adrian. See you later.


Adrian (14:21):


Great stuff. Ticker HOME presented by our partners at Small Is The New Big who are on a mission to create 1 million affordable homes in the next 10 years and help Aussies struggling with housing stress. Learn more at smallisthenewbig.com.au. Nice and simple. Catch you soon.



The new ‘norms’ rising out of COVID have created a wave of new trends. In this episode of Ticker HOME, Ian gives his take on the current property market trends and some hot tips on how you can turn those trends into opportunities that will increase the value of your property and your cash flow.


Adrian (00:08):

Hi there. Welcome to Ticker Home, where each week we will dive into the latest trends on the property market and answer the questions you need to know. It’s a pleasure every week to welcome my co-host, Ian Ugarte, co-founder of Small is the New Big. Hello mate, good to see you. 


Ian Ugarte (00:23):

Hi, Adrian, how are you? Another week, it’s been pretty good for the last week in property.


Adrian (00:27):

Absolutely. Well, we’re going to get to that in just a moment with our talking points first. Ticker Home of course is presented by our partners at Small is the New Big who are on a mission to create one million affordable homes in the next 10 years and help Aussies struggling with housing stress. So learn more at smallisthenewbig.com.au. All right Ian, what have we got in terms of what is trending this week on Ticker Home?


Ian Ugarte (00:51):

Yeah. I look at a news article from Malcolm Sutton ABC News talking about working from home and how COVID has actually brought a new complication, occupational health and safety. What’s going to happen if someone trips over a cord or spills coffee on themselves while they’re sitting at home at work and do we need to have to start assessing individual workplaces as your home to make sure that you’ve got insurance cover on there? And does there have to be an audit done? And interestingly enough, the Property Council of Australia did some research from January 20 to 21. 9.6% was the vacancy rate in commercial property, now up to 11.7% year on year, and that’s the largest jump since 1997. So this trend was not only just in metro offices, but it was also regional. And a survey done amongst workers have said that even post pandemic they actually don’t want to go into work. They want to spend a maximum amount of two days at work and possibly the rest of the time in their home office.


Adrian (01:47):

Yeah. That will be one to watch. We’re hearing all sides of that conversation. People talking about whether they work from home and put the cat up on the screen accidentally through their Zoom camera. Not sure if you saw that one recently. That was absolutely hilarious. Don’t do that to us. Okay, Ian. Don’t do that to us.


Ian Ugarte (02:01):

I haven’t got that filter, but I’ve got the Oompa Loompa filter with green eyebrows.


Adrian (02:08):

We’ll have to drop that in at some point. Maybe not this time around. In terms of there was that one as well. There’s a lot of YouTube clips we can look at of course. Let’s talk about Australian property prices potentially rising. There’s some lending laws that might be relaxed here that experts are talking about. What have you got?


Ian Ugarte (02:26):

Yeah, [inaudible 00:02:28]. During the middle of COVID, there will be concern about the property cycle and what was going to happen to it. So they’re talking about relaxation of lending laws. We’ll talk a little bit more about it in this episode as well, but essentially the average borrow, we’ll probably be able to get $70,000 of extra finance to be able to kick in and do more. Now, this is in April last year, I was one of the very few predicting an up slide, not a down slide, in property cycle. And CBA was talking about 10% doom and gloom and then there was someone up to 30%. low and behold, December quarter hit last year, we’ve now hit the highest median house prices across most of the metro cities. Sydney well above $1.2 million. Melbourne above $900,000. Brisbane, the little shy think country town, which is actually turning into a bigger country town now is well over $700,000.


I think there’s great value in there. CBA is predicting an 8% rise this year and the doom and gloom is gone. The easing of lending is really going to stimulate the market again. And the rest of the article is commentary about people putting themselves at risk with the lending criteria changing, but more importantly right now, quicker application process is a better for lenders to be able to get loans approved. There’s one lender at the moment that’s taking 17 days to pick up your file 17 days after you put in an application and that needs to change so that we can get some stimulation into the marketplace.


Adrian (03:51):

Yeah. Well, this might lead us into our final one about into state rushing into Queensland during the COVID-19 pandemic. You had another point on that one.


Ian Ugarte (03:59):

Yeah. This article here by Michael Way and Sheila Pain, Queensland is absolutely booming right now. And so to get it into context, the net migration to Western Australia was 681 people. So they were in second place. In first place was Queensland at 7,237 people entering as a net migration. Victoria lost 3,749 of them just under 4,000 from New South Wales. Nationally, we had 76,200 people moving into state. That’s the lowest number since 2014 and really bolt border restrictions is a culprit to all of this. 11,200 people have left the big smoke and gone out to regional Australia. And it’s an interesting trend to follow that one.


Adrian (04:45):

Well, just on that just briefly, I mean, it’s hard to answer in a way, but do you think that sort of trend is only going to continue over coming years?


Ian Ugarte (04:55):

Oh for sure. I mean, what we’ll talk about today and the bits and pieces that are coming through right now, we’ve certainly got an ability to see that regional Australia has been undervalued for the last 20 years. Metro has gone gangbusters and it’s now catch up time for regional.


Adrian (05:11):

Yeah. Fascinating. We’ll get into that now. So yeah, this is our extended conversation. There our news topics, and now we get right into it. So to begin, we’re all pretty much accustomed to the home office by now as we know. And for some people, this means their kitchen table, Ian. What do you see this as the new trends in the home office space for 2021?


Ian Ugarte (05:30):

Yeah. Short term, people thought the kitchen table, the dining table was going to cut it, but unfortunately COVID has gone on and that’s not no longer a feasible place to be able to hold your home office from. So we’re now seeing a dedicated office space. And my market intelligence is that people are now adding to the wishlist for their dream home a space that’s separated from the rest of the house. So they’re looking for the extra spare bedroom, a granny flat or a studio, an attached garage that they can actually convert and use that as office space. And in some states, there’s actually processes that you can follow without needing to get council approval. For an example, there’s an exempt develop in New South Wales where you can put a 10 square meter studio in your backyard. As long as you use a qualified carpenter to put it together and you meet all the codes, you can do it without getting approval.


And so why do we want a dedicated space? Well, we’ve all seen those Zoom fails that you see in the background there right now, naked partners and kids infiltrating and their cat. And interestingly the lawyer saying, “Judge, I’m not a cat.” Well, clearly cats don’t talk. And add to that the safety issues we talked about earlier, but more importantly, there’s also a tax deductibility to be able to work from home. It does affect your capital gains tax if you do so into the future, but it’s another great outcome where you’d actually be saving yourself some money or at least saving some tax by working from home.


Adrian (06:55):

So with the working from home situation people are now exploring, what’s possible regionally given they no longer need to be close to the company’s office? So how has people’s wishlist of what they needed to enable them to move to regional Australia changed in the past 12 months or so?


Ian Ugarte (07:12):

Yeah, it’s changed dramatically. And traditionally employers have always based living close to their employment. So that’s either am I on a train line or where am I within 45 minutes driving of the front door of my office space? And so they’ve clustered their living according to where they work. So now they’re only needing to travel sometimes a week, once a week, once a fortnight, once a month for some employees, some never. So we’re now seeing the doors of regional Australia opening up with the flexibility of the home office given the expanded relief of not needing to travel to dedicated office spaces every day, which means we’re now seeing the movement of people one to two hours away from the metro areas or the major cities and it’s cheaper to buy.


And there was less competition for purchasing in regional. It’s now increased, but not only are you working from home, you’ve got lifestyle. It’s not as busy as the big smoke. And there’s a real community feel about a lot of these regional centers. And that’s well away from the bustling city. And I know that because I moved well away from the bustling city of Sydney about 10 years ago now. And it’s been absolutely awesome for myself and my family.


Adrian (08:23):

Yeah. I mean, I can speak to that, Ian. I went to a friend’s place over New Year’s Eve and they just bought a place about an hour and 20 outside of Melbourne. So all of us, we live within five K’s of the city here in Melbourne. They bought a place down there for I think about 1.2 million, an unbelievable place, four bedroom, which you could never get close to the city. And it’s only about an hour’s drive and they come up once or twice during the week, but that has to be something we need to look at more. Don’t you think? My goodness, it felt so different to be out there.


Ian Ugarte (08:54):

And I’ll give you my scenario.


Adrian (08:57):

Yeah, go for it.


Ian Ugarte (08:58):

We moved out of Sydney. There’s a point in time where you realize you don’t need to be in Sydney. So we moved out. We moved to the sunshine coast. I’m here in my recording studio that’s built in a 12 by nine meter shed. And not only do I get to work home, I’ve got two acres. I’ve got a waterfront teach. I have my home down here. I’ve got an office space as well. And we’ve got our general manager and her family that lives on site. We’ve got the most. You just cannot believe how nice it is to live regionally. I’m 15 minutes from the beach. I’m 15 minutes from everywhere else that I need to be. And I can get to a major airport if I need to travel around the country. It’s absolutely awesome.


Adrian (09:35):

No, I love it. No, I love that sort of story. I think we need to talk more about it so people get these ideas in their head in some ways. All right, moving on. There’s always been this search for the sun in Australia of course. Have the recent moves to the Northern States been about the sun chasers or in your view, is there something more at play with these moves?


Ian Ugarte (09:53):

Yeah, look, the sun still plays a big role, but the bigger role here is that there’s border insecurity. And so whereas people have been stuck or might get stuck or they feel like it’s stuck, whether their business may get shut down. And you look at the fitness industry that’s been shut down a few times in different areas, where the opportunities lie is where people are going to. And so people may have watched what’s happened across Australia and they’ve made their choices and picked their choices. And Queensland has fared fairly well during the whole of COVID.


So people have moved their lives, families, and businesses 10 years earlier. So those ones who said, “You know, we’ll just live here for 10 years more and then we’ll go to the sunshine.” Well, they’re now saying, “You know what? I’ve had enough of having the border insecurity of what’s going on. Let’s move right now.” And that pent up demand has now triggered something big, especially in Southeast Queensland. We’ve got some regional parts last week. We talked about days on market where we’ve now down to below 40 days on the market as far as listings things. And that is a very peak area when property prices are uncontrollable and the property market up here is in its stride. And it’s not a market that I like buying in, but it’s certainly reacting in a strong way.


Adrian (11:04):

And one of the big shifts in the housing and property markets has of course being the move by banks to adjust the way they assess and lend money for homes, shifting the owners from them to ensure the borrower can make repayments back to the borrower themselves to ensure they can meet these repayments. So what are the impacts of this shift by the banks?


Ian Ugarte (11:23):

Oh, there’s going to be a huge impact on the market when we’re shifting from lender responsibility to borrower responsibility. And if we look at the early 2000s, that’s where we had the stat deck low doc loans. So that essentially meant you’d put a signature on a piece of paper and you’d tell me how much you earn and we will give you the money. Now, thankfully, the Australian Prudential Regulatory Authority or APRA saw the writing on the wall that that was too dangerous and they started to pull back and put the facility onto the lender to make sure that the lender was responsible in giving money out.


The Americans didn’t do that, which is why the GFC happened and people in America just walked away from their loan. So here we’ve got the Australian government stimulating the marketplace to say, “Let’s get some more out there.” Will we go back to the past of where we had those stat deck low doc loans? I don’t think so, but what I think you will see is the Aussie John Simon or Mark Boris or serial entrepreneurs similar to them coming back into the market and creating a lending frontier or a second tier lending facility that will be very, very aggressive in being able to pick up the investor market in property.


Adrian (12:28):

And one of the things that I know you talk a lot about that I’ve not heard of before is the emergence of the office home. So what is an office home and how does it differ from a home office?


Ian Ugarte (12:39):

Well, look, you look back at research and Roy Morgan research in June 2020 showed that there are 4.3 million extra Australians working from home. Owners of businesses have long-term leases. And if you look at a property like this one here with 50 offices, let’s put a boardroom in, let’s create four key offices for the key workers, the people that really run this business for the owner. And let’s then make sure that those offices have the extra one bedroom apartment attached through the backend. The office space isn’t being used anymore so they have a kitchen and a bathroom in there. They have a one bedder and then they have some key meeting rooms. The boardroom acts as the place where once a month, the whole company comes together and they make sure they have their monthly meeting. But in between all of that, you’ve got these four key personnel that run this business that have got close proximity to the office.


Now, let’s look at the advantages of this. They’re now not needing to travel every day. Yes, they’re closer to the work. And you might say, “Well, they work more. They’re probably are already working long hours and millennials know what this is like.” But what if we said to them the owner of this business who now has got empty floor space says to this four key workers, “Please come in and rent. I’m going to give you really little rent. So you’re going to save yourself half your weekly rent. I’m going to include utilities, save yourself some money because I want you to buy a house in the next three to five years because you’ve really influenced my business in a positive way and that’s how I want you to get into the property market.” And so the office home is certainly going to be something you’ll see in the next five years.


Adrian (14:08):

Mate, I love it. Sounds good to me. Let’s hope our governments and policymakers can get on board. Maybe you need to become one of them, Ian Ugarte, because I love the way you speak.


Ian Ugarte (14:17):

I’m not sure I hate myself enough, but let’s see where we go.


Adrian (14:20):

Mate, great stuff from you. I learn something every time as do our viewers. We’ll talk to you again next week, okay.


Ian Ugarte (14:26):

Thanks Adrian.


Adrian (14:27):

Awesome stuff. Ticker Home of course presented by our partners at Small is the New Big who are on a mission to create 1 million affordable homes in the next 10 years and help Aussies struggling with housing stress. They provide unique property education programs, and services for socially conscious property investors. Together, they’re changing the housing landscape in Australia one co-living cashflow positive property at a time. Learn more at smallisthenewbig.com.au. What an episode that was. That’s the website you need to go to. Oh, I learn something every single week. Catch you soon.




Forget property HOT SPOTS. Watch this week’s Ticker HOME to find out why all property investors need to know how to identify warm spots!


Adrian (00:09):

Hello, and welcome to Ticker Home, where each week we will dive into the latest trends on the property market and answer the questions that you need to know. It’s a pleasure to welcome my co-host, Ian Ugarte, co-founder of Small is the New Big. Mate, great to have you back on Ticker, how are you today?

Ian Ugarte (00:25):

Thanks mate. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity every week to do this and be able to get people to learn something, it’s going to be so awesome for me.

Adrian (00:33):

Yeah, absolutely. We’re going to get into that in just a moment, I reckon this is going to be a great chat. But firstly, Ticker Home is presented by our partners at Small is the New Big, who are on a mission to create one million affordable homes in the next 10 years and help Ozzy’s struggling with housing stress learn more at smallisthenewbig.com.au. We’ll Ian we’ll bring you back in now. Firstly, what are you looking forward to, to bring to this conversation? And some of the messages that we’re going to get out to our viewers over the coming weeks, what are you most looking forward to?

Ian Ugarte (01:05):

I think what I’m looking forward to is the opportunity, especially for millennials, we’re stuck in a place now where the great Australian dream is out of reach. The ability to buy a home has gone. And so there’s so many millennials that are simply waiting for their parents to die so that they can afford to buy a house. And if I can get people into an understanding that there are different ways to be able to look at property, to research and understand where you’re going to go, then hopefully fingers crossed, within the next few weeks, you can see that there’s this potential to be able to invest, do well. And also, maybe perhaps even leave work someday because you’ve got enough income coming from your properties.

Adrian (01:43):

That sounds pretty good to me. I mean, even from my personal point of view, I look forward to learning and hopefully getting into the property market. But this is exactly what we like to talk about here at Ticker. So of course, we’re here to talk about property hotspots for 2021, but based on your 30 years of experience in the property game, you’re saying the hotspot is a total myth at the moment. What do you mean by this?

Ian Ugarte (02:05):

Well, see hotspots are bandied around, especially the ebbs and flows that we’ve seen for the last 12 months. And all you hear is hotspot, hotspot, hotspot. And so it creates a FOMO type set up where people feel like they need to get into the marketplace. And if people are looking at the hotspot, they’ve missed the bus. So that means that there are people that have identified hotspots and they’ve pushed the prices up. And by the time the average buyer’s ready to get in, it’s way too late. So the reason hotspots are a complete myth is that people will pay more in a declared hotspot rather than bringing a little more intelligence and look for the cold spots around the hotspots, which creates what we call warm spots. And that’s where the growth and real opportunity lies.

Adrian (02:50):

So, let’s talk about warm spots. Because I don’t know, I don’t think I’ve ever heard of the term warm spots, but I like it. So can you explain what a warm spot is and how people can find them exactly?

Ian Ugarte (03:02):

Yeah. We want to look at the cold suburbs surrounding the hotspot because we all know that little hot water, little cold water creates warm water. And so a cold spot will become warmer because of the proximity to the hotspot. So sort of like I’ll explain it this way, sort of like sitting on your three seated couch and your parents at one end and they’ve got the portable heater sprayed straight on them so that they get hot. At some point in time, dad’s going to look at mom and say, “Hey, this is way too hot.” Now you’ve been sitting at the other end of the couch, slightly getting warm. So, what dad will do is spin that heater so it faces you and they’re hot now, so now you’re going to get hot because you’re in close proximity. Investors get it wrong. They want to sit on mom and dad’s lap rather than actually sitting at the end of the couch.

                  And that will mean that if you sit at the end of the couch, you’ll get much better returns from a property perspective. One way to find these warm spots is to simply Google property heat maps in your state. So Google heat map, New South Wales, or heatmap Victoria. And they’re coded by median house price with colors from blue, which is cold all the way up to red, which is hot. You’re looking for a whole bunch of red spots with some yellow and orange spots because they’re the spots that will take up the most because of the proximity. And it’s a great visual representation of a hotspot and getting the spot right for you. So, I would also say to that, it’s like a pebble in the pond effect, throw the pebble in and you’ll get this ripple effect that goes out.

                  So again, you can manually track median house prices by looking at hot spots. So, as soon as the dentist and the taxi driver tells you to buy in the suburb, go and research that suburb and find something close by and then historically look at the median data. And the best way that I’ve found is days on market. So, days on market demand.com has a great days on market representation. So, the days on market is how long does it take for a property to sell in a certain suburb? When it’s at about a hundred days, it’s actually a really cold spot, but when it starts to get to 80 days, that’s when you start doing even more research and at 60 days, you should pull the trigger and get stuck in. A hot market is 40 days and anything less than that is a hot, hot market. So, in some markets at the moment, you’re seeing seven days or less days on market. And that’s a really great indicator.

Adrian (05:18):

Yeah, fascinating. So just staying on the hotspot and the warm spot for a moment, what do you think are the main issues that people, or the main mistakes people are making? Are they looking at just the hot spots? Do they not look at the warm spots or even sort of have an understanding of how that process works? What sort of errors are you making? Because I think sometimes when we point out the mistakes, it opens up where the opportunities are.

Ian Ugarte (05:42):

Yeah. I think people base their investing off what they hear in media, in articles. And they hear these hotspots and they don’t get it quite right. They don’t follow the trends that they should follow. You should be looking at infrastructure and how the government is spending money. So, where the government is spending money is where you’ll get the best outcome. And there are plenty of websites where you can get on and find out where they’re spending hundreds of millions of dollars. And if they’re spending hundreds of million dollars, it’s a reason, there’s a growth area of growth corridor that’s going on. Even something like Bunnings is a great place to research where they’re opening a new store, because if they’re opening a new store, it’s because there’s demand in that area. It’s just simply a demand supply equation. So if government is spending money on a hospital, firstly, they’re going to bring construction workers into the area.

                  Secondly, they’re then going to go along and the workers are going to start. So when they go into operational mode, you’ve got the nurses and the doctors. And so think about high proximity to employment areas where people are going to want to live near home. And so in those areas, there’s not enough homes and there’s the law of supply and demand is a really interesting thing. And there’s a small suburb of 25,000 people in Tasmania where the government matched dollar dollar for the state government and the council to spend a hundred million dollars with 25,000 people in the town. Something had to give there. So it’s always a good place to look for that.

Adrian (07:07):

And in terms of infrastructure, is it a good idea, do you think to buy in a new suburb that’s been developed. Those house and land packages that we often see stretch across the sprawling areas that were once paddocks of nothing, just cows, there’s infrastructure going on in there now. Give us a bit of an idea of your understanding there, because I think a lot of people are probably throwing up, 50, 50, should I, or shouldn’t I go into that sort of area?

Ian Ugarte (07:33):

Well, there are two types of infrastructure. There is government and private industry infrastructure where they’re actually putting money into the marketplace, but then there’s a developer imposed infrastructure. So, that is a developer goes out and finds a piece of farm land and puts the smallest type squares into the smallest boxes they can actually get. And so these barren paddocks are, that’s not where you want to be. So, what I’m talking about is these developers create wealth for themselves. They’re not really interested in creating better outcomes.

                  So the house and land is a classic one of these mistakes that people make when they invest in property, they get sold on the marketing numbers. They get told by these marketers that there’s percentage growth here, and there’s this growth corridor. And all of these things are happening. And the thing is that the same person that’s selling this house and land package is unlikely to ever buy one themselves. They get a 30 to $40,000 mark-up and price and money in their pocket every time they do that. So house and land packages have hurt Australian property owners over a number of years with values, not rising for 10 to 20 years.

Adrian (08:39):

So you’re saying that established areas are more likely to be warm spots and then move into a hot spot?

Ian Ugarte (08:47):

Yeah, absolutely. The established areas, when you look at law of supply and demand, which I spoke about earlier, you can’t beat that law. So, we’ve seen the doubling of prices in Australia for the last 200 years, every seven to 10 years. So if I bought a property today for $500,000, the expectation in 10 years time is that that property is going to be worth $1 million. Now the actual building sitting on top of the land has gone down in value, it’s the land that’s gone up. So, if I’m buying a piece of land next to farmland and barren, whatever, that means that they’ve got opportunity to put more land onto the marketplace for the next 10 to 15 years, which means my land value is not going to grow. So if you’re buying a property, that’s never had a house built on it, you’re essentially making a mistake. If you buy in an established area where there’s a shortage of land, that’s where you’re going to do really well.

Adrian (09:40):

There are so many little nuggets of gold that you are throwing out in this 15 minute chat. I’m going to go back and watch this and take notes and all the rest. This is awesome stuff. Just to finish, and we have touched on it earlier, but why is the market so hung up on the term hot spots, if the horse has potentially already bolted?

Ian Ugarte (10:00):

Yeah, look if you are at the races, it’s easy to point at a winner and say, “I should have put money on that horse.” And you can try and bet on the winner after the race, but the fact is that it’s done and it’s dusted. You actually don’t want to be the punter, you want to be the bookie. I mean, the tab doesn’t lose money. And that’s a really simple analogy. It’s a simple science and all you need is knowledge, right? So property hot spots are a marketing spin.

                  What we want to do is bring some reality and tangible research tools to find the warm corridors so that people don’t get sucked into the hype of the hot spots. Hot spots exist, but the myth is that you should buy there. It’s a fear of missing out myth that they put you into and with the tools that we have available and the free download that we’ve created for the viewers, you can step through all the knowledge that you require all the top hats that you can use, and you can do this every day. So, why don’t you use my 30 years of experience and we’ve created that download. All you need to do is go to smallisthenewbig.com.au/tickerhome.

Adrian (11:01):

Nicely done. And just to finish, we were going to start with a couple of news topics. We’ll just wrap up with a couple of these briefly, if we can. So, the first one we’re talking about where to buy property on the Sunshine Coast in 2021, what are you seeing here exactly?

Ian Ugarte (11:16):

Yeah. Look, I was a little bit upset by this because the opening line says that the Sunshine Coast is for newlyweds and nearly deads. I came here eight years ago, I live on the Sunshine Coast. Reason I came here out of Sydney was that I’ve got a two acre waterfront property. I work from here. I live, I’ve got my dream home here, I’m 15 minutes from the beach, 15 minutes from the shops, 15 minutes from new [inaudible 00:11:37], an hour out of Brisbane. The Sunshine Coast had a bit of a glitch in 2007, it peaked, the GFC then acted and the 2007 prices only made it back into 2017. So, the supply and demand right now on the Sunshine Coast though, is an incredible … It’s a really devastating place for affordability for young couples and people just renting. In 2010, there were 12,230 properties available on the market for purchasing, we’re down to 7,252.

                  There are 80 people turning up to open homes to purchase and to rent properties with rentals, going up 150 to $180 at any point in time. Notably in this article, by Alex Brewster in savings.com.au, the majority of the suburbs listed, all the suburbs listed are in established area. Not one mention of the huge estates that getting put out, out into the corridor down towards the South end of the Sunshine Coast. I actually didn’t invest here when I first moved here, I bought this home, but I didn’t put any property investing in. I started investing about four years ago because of those key metrics. And now we’re reaping those rewards, but I do not like buying in this marketplace. It’s a hot spot right now. And hot spots are not where you should be buying, warm spots is where you should be.

Adrian (12:54):

Yeah. We want warm spots. This is something I’m taking away. And just to wrap, let’s talk about property hot spots that some of the experts have their eyes on in 2021. And whether you’re looking at these as well, what have you got for us?

Ian Ugarte (13:05):

Yeah, look, it’s interesting that a lot of the other articles that are listed, touting a lot of Canberra, there’s Sydney when we’re talking about outskirts, but generally the regional one hour to two hours out of … Now COVID’s made a massive change in the marketplace. We’ve got potential now for the business owners that would never let their workers work from home, are all of a sudden saying, “Well, actually this is not too bad.” So, those employees are now saying, “Well, now I can actually afford to ring out one to two hours out of Sydney. I can have my home office.” What’s really, really important right now is that the spare bedroom, or the dining room table is not the office. There are people looking for homes that have a studio, or a granny flat, so they can have an established office from home. The change in the marketplace now is an incredible change and the regional areas are taking the most of that uplift. And that’s where you should be looking right now.

Adrian (13:57):

Nicely done. That is a great first episode, mate it so good to have you here on Ticker, part of our family. Enjoy your day. I’ll be watching this throughout the week and taking notes and we’ll see you again next week with Ticker Home once again. Okay.

Ian Ugarte (14:10):

Thanks Adrian, see you next week.

Adrian (14:12):

Good stuff Ticker Home, of course, presented by our partners at Small is the New Big, who are on a mission to create one million new homes, and affordable homes in the next 10 years and help Ozzy’s struggling with housing stress that we all feel. They provide unique property education programs, and services for socially conscious property investors. Together they’re changing the housing landscape in Australia, one co-living cashflow positive property at a time. Learn more at smallisthenewbig.com.au. Catch us soon.

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